Regardless of what powers Hawaii’s energy future, red tape is in the way

from Grassroot Institute of Hawaii

Excessive regulation is largely preventing Hawaii from progressing toward its goal of using only renewable energy sources and becoming carbon neutral by 2045, according to Grassroot Institute of Hawaii’s executive vice president, Joe Kent.

Kent’s comments on Hawaii’s regulatory roadblocks to building more power plants and producing more energy were part of his Sunday conversation with host Johnny Miro on the H. Hawaii Media radio network.

Kent compared building a power plant to building a home and the regulations that must be met in doing so, including gaining permission from the State Land Use Commission and obtaining zoning and permitting authorizations. These barriers can slow or even prevent power generation projects from being built, Kent said. 

In addition, he said, delays drive up the cost of projects and present Hawaii as a difficult place to do business, which drives down investor interest.

Kent said many energy developers he has spoken with say regulations that allow community groups to essentially kill projects after they’ve been approved are the biggest hurdles to clear. 

He cited a project on Maui — Paehu Solar — where the permissions and permits were granted, but legal challenges delayed it, and drove up the costs to the point that it was simply canceled.

Kent emphasized that state and county governments need to expedite the building of new power-generating plants if Hawaii hopes to meet its goal of becoming carbon neutral in the next 20 years, whether they be solar, wind, biofuel or geothermal.

Kent said that at the present pace and given the current overly regulated environment, he doesn’t see how that goal can be met.

Kent added that he believes the state’s goal of completely electrifying the economy will only drive up the need for more power generation and the need to find what he termed “firm power” – that is, power that is not reliant on wind or weather – that will always be there when it is needed.

TRANSCRIPT

6-1-25 Joe Kent with host Johnny Miro on the H. Hawaii Media radio network

Johnny Miro: Good Sunday morning, town. Johnny Miro. Once again, it’s time for H Hawaii Media family radio stations public access programming, and we’re available via your smart device also at HawaiiStream@FM and Live365[.com], along with our five radio stations on Oahu and on Kauai and Maui. 

And we’ll be discussing a very important topic because there’s a lofty goal that’s been in the works for quite some time now, and we’re getting closer and closer each and every year: Hawaii’s goal to reach 100% renewable energy by the year 2045, so 20 years away. 

It appears to be hitting a snag, though, as 15 renewable power projects were canceled in the last five years. Did you know that? We’re going to find out more on that. 

Joe Kent, executive vice president of the Grassroot Institute of Hawaii, went to the Hawaii Energy Conference that was last week to learn more about why so many projects aren’t panning out, and to deliver some remarks himself about the situation. 

So welcome in Joe Kent from the Grassroot Institute of Hawaii. Good morning to you, Joe.

Joe Kent: Good morning, Johnny. Thanks for having me.

Miro: Renewable energy, the goal to be 100% renewable by 2045. Joe, why are so many, though, of these renewable energy projects being canceled?

Kent: Well, it’s the regulations, Johnny, [chuckles] it’s the regulations. 

It’s just like building a home, it turns out. Building a power plant is really similar, and there are similar regulations that are in the way. You’ve got the State Land Use Commission and permitting troubles and zoning issues, and even community groups that might not want your building there. All of this is stacking up such that it’s getting harder to build renewable energy projects, not easier.

Miro: All right, do you have any stories about some projects that were canceled you can relay to the listeners?

Kent: Yeah, sure. There’s 15 stories out there. And one of them was Paeahu Solar on Maui. 

That was a project that was actually approved, a solar project in South Kihei, passed all the requirements, you know, got the rubber stamp from the Public Utilities Commission, but it was challenged by opponents who took it to court after it was approved. And even though the opponents lost, the delays from the legal challenges put the project so far off schedule that, you know, by the time they were supposed to build it, costs had risen dramatically, and they finally just canceled.

You know, another one is the Makana Lā project on Maui. That one was interesting because they pulled out because they were worried about Hawaiian Electric’s credit rating. Clearway, the company that was doing it, said that HECO’s financial distress was a challenge since the August 2023 fires. 

And, you know, that’s concerning for a lot of these projects. They are, you know, are putting in 20-year contracts to get money from Hawaiian Electric, but if Hawaiian Electric is in a shaky situation, then that’s a risky prospect for these people who are trying to build power plants. 

So there’s all kinds of factors out there.

Miro: Sounds like it. 

Joe, what are the main barriers, in your opinion, to developing an energy project here, besides the ones you stated?

Kent: Well, yes, you know, we have all those regulations, of course, but community opposition, I think, is, you know, a huge one. Permitting delays, of course; costing issues. Of course, there’s the Jones Act, which makes shipping to Hawaii more expensive. 

But there have been geopolitical issues; the global pandemic was a big factor in shutting down a lot of power plants. And it’s just Hawaii’s big-government-system approach to power grid. 

So all of these things slow things down, and as you know, time is money.

Miro: But you need to have energy to power up these projects. So the pushback, it’s kind of [chuckles] it’s interesting, the pushback on that. 

All right. Which barrier snags people the most though, Joe, [inaudible 00:04:30]?

Kent: Just like you said, you need energy, and that can be community energy as well. If the community is energized to put this plant in their neighborhood, then, you know, it’s almost going to be built. 

But when was the last time you heard a community that wanted a power plant in their neighborhood? Nobody wants this, right? It’s just like in the building of homes, say the NIMBYs — not in my backyard — time and time and again. 

Developers, when I ask them about, you know, what’s the biggest fear you have in terms of all the hurdles to build a power plant, they say it’s the community opposition. Because just like I mentioned before, even if your project is approved, it can be denied and actually killed by the community.

Miro: Just [inaudible 00:05:23] because the Supreme Court just ruled [inaudible 00:05:25] project out of Utah, I don’t know if you saw that. They say this might make it easier to move these types of things forward. So [inaudible 00:05:33] that. 

The case was Seven County Infrastructure Coalition v. Eagle County. It was a unanimous Supreme Court decision. [inaudible 00:05:41] something that might be able to move these projects forward now if people [inaudible 00:05:45]. Only time will tell on that, Joe.

Joe Kent from the Grassroot Institute of Hawaii. You went to that conference over there last week, the Hawaii Energy Conference. Now, what are people saying about these canceled projects?

Kent: Well, I asked them what [inaudible 00:06:01] costs when a project is canceled, and no surprise, it’s millions of dollars that is poured in just to be seeking and searching about whether a project is viable or not. 

But, you know, if 15 projects have been canceled, that’s millions and millions of dollars. So what happens to that money? Well, the costs are either sunk or they’re just rolled into the next project, and that makes future energy projects even more expensive. 

It also ices out the market or, excuse me, creates a chilling effect for those who might want to pursue energy in Hawaii. If we become known as a state in which it’s very difficult to build energy, then it might spook investors. So we’re beginning to see some of that in Hawaii right now. It’s just getting harder, not easier, to develop these projects. 

And a lot of the people at the energy conference were talking about the loss of federal and state funding. You know, the Trump effect at the national level has reduced spending across the board for all types of things, since energy, especially renewable energy, enjoyed luxurious certain tax credits and benefits both at the federal and state levels. Those are both disappearing right now, and that calls into question a lot the future of energy.

Miro: All right. The state has a goal, though, of reaching that 100% renewable energy by the year 2045, just 20 years away. Do you think that goal can be reached at this current pace?

Kent: I don’t think so. But if you talk to people in the energy space, I think they don’t think so either, actually. I mean, you get these hushed conversations in back halls and side conversations of people kind of winking and knowing, “You know, I don’t know if we’re going to even reach this.” 

Like, right now, we’re barely at 30, 40%, and we’re supposed to be at fully 40% in the next five years. But to get to 70% in the next 10 years after that, and then 100% after that by 2045, it may be technically feasible. And that’s what the industry experts all say. It’s technically feasible.

But what does that mean? That means it’s probably not practically feasible, especially if you look at the community opposition.

Miro: Are most of these projects solar? And are most of the plants we’re talking about, what type of energy are they talking about utilizing for these plants? Because I know some small modular nuclear units are at least being discussed. What type of energy are they talking about, at least at that conference?

Kent: Yeah. Well, of the projects that are being proposed right now, almost all of them are solar projects. A few of them are biofuel or kind of mixed combustion, where you can use biofuel or petroleum or different types of energy in the same system. 

Then, of course, there’s geothermal. There might be a small expansion there. But by and large, it’s all solar and battery.

Miro: And solar was being, heavily relied, as you mentioned earlier, on those subsidies and the credits, right?

Kent: Yeah. Just like you mentioned, though, the nuclear aspect, it was pretty interesting at the conference, because they had a whole panel on barriers to nuclear energy in Hawaii. And the main barrier is the [state] Constitution, of course. There’s a constitutional provision that says we can’t use nuclear. 

But other states have had similar constitutional provisions that have been rolled back, and, you know, some people at the conference were talking about the possibility, or at least the benefits, of doing so in Hawaii.

Miro: Maybe a lot of people didn’t realize that. Was that something in the initial Constitution or put in a decade, 20 years ago, what have you? Can you relay that information to listeners?

Kent: Oh, I am not up to speed on exactly when it was put in, but, you know, the people at the conference were talking about some of the technological advances in nuclear energy that have happened, you know, since the ’70s.

Miro: Yeah.

Kent: And today’s nuclear is far more safe than people remember, I guess. So in any case, it was an interesting side topic, but not, not a lot of potential as far as practicality.

Miro: Yeah, because it sounds like some sort of legislation will have to be put forward to remove that barrier, apparently. 

Joe, are state officials or people in the industry aware of just how difficult it’s going to be to reach this goal of 2045, and do they think it can be done?

Kent: Well, I think that people all say the mantra whenever they get together: “We believe that it can be done. We believe we will reach 100% renewable by 2045.” But when you talk to them one-on-one, they don’t think so, I think. 

But more importantly, from an industry [inaudible 00:11:45], you know, someone who’s building a power plant or a company that’s building a power plant, what do they care? They have no skin in this [inaudible 00:11:54] their project and their power plant. And the only ones who are talking about this broad overall goal are the state officials who really have no power over this, except to get in the way.

Miro: Joe Kent, executive vice president of Grassroot Institute of Hawaii. 

Let’s see. Can you talk about the reliability? Everybody talks about the grid. The reliability of the grid [inaudible 00:12:19] very important these days. And we just had a situation in Louisiana with, they were close to having some issues, so they informed people to kind of, like, back off usage. As the state transitions its energy to renewables, is the power really going to [inaudible 00:12:35] when we need it?

Kent: Well, you know, that is a big concern right now. We just had a big power plant that was retired recently. The AES coal plant on Oahu supplied a lot of the islands, and, you know, they shut it down. 

Now, they replaced it with, you know, the battery facilities, but those batteries only provide enough power for about four hours. And in any case, they thought that the batteries would be powered by renewable by now. But because of all these renewable cancellations [inaudible 00:13:17] the [inaudible 00:13:18] don’t have the power to power them. What they’ve had to do is run the oil plants longer just to power the batteries. 

So that means, you know, all we did is for batteries, we stopped, swapped coal for more oil. So, you know, what kind of a policy is this? 

In any case, the retiring of these old power plants, which are operated long after their lifespan, is calling into question [inaudible 00:13:46] the lights will stay on during a [inaudible 00:13:49] rainy day or a day when the wind is not blowing [inaudible 00:13:52] excessively rainy days, when we had rolling blackouts all over the island.

And, you know, right now, just think about your power at home. How many times has the grid gone down for a glitch, or maybe a minute or two? Power disruptions are happening more. And so there’s a lot of talk about how the grid is weakening and whether or not the focus on solar is going to provide the firm power, the ongoing power, when we need it.

Miro: Intermittent energy when you need that base load [inaudible 00:14:29] reliable energy source, though, still, you know, to kind of, like, wean off until we get there. But in the meantime, we are where we are right now. 

We talked about Hawaii [inaudible 00:14:39] energy goal [inaudible 00:14:40] this clean energy goal. Joe, apparently, the state needs to be carbon neutral by that year 2045 as well. Perhaps you could explain what’s meant by carbon neutral.

Kent: Yeah, carbon neutral just means reducing carbon and planting trees such that the net amount of carbon you’re producing is zero. But with this law, and the law [inaudible 00:15:06] a few years [inaudible 00:15:07] is to be carbon net-zero by the year 2045. 

That means the state on net would produce zero carbon, and that includes carbon from all cars, boats, airplanes, power plants. You know, I’m wondering, do they include volcanoes in that? [chuckles] But it’s almost fantastical to try to think of what Hawaii’s economy would look like if all of the components were changed to be net carbon-neutral zero.

Miro: That would mean all cars would have to transition to electric, wouldn’t it? If you’re talking about [crosstalk]–

Kent: Yes.

Miro: OK, so nobody’s really discussed that California style, but I guess that discussion is coming down the road then if that’s the goal. Sounds like it.

Kent: Well, [inaudible 00:15:59] they have a plan [inaudible 00:16:00] Energy Office put together for [inaudible 00:16:04] organizing [inaudible 00:16:07]. And basically, one way to do it is to electrify everything. Electrify all cars, transportation, buildings, et cetera; switch to low-carbon fuels like sustainable aviation fuels; put more ethanol in the fuel tank;and plant lots and lots of trees.

So now the problem with the plan to plant lots and lots of trees is you need the same land for the [inaudible 00:16:37].

So these are [inaudible 00:16:39] we’re going to electrify everything, but if that’s the case, then that might cause more power usage, not less, and that puts even more pressure on this goal of trying to power the grid with firm power and renewable power. 

So these goals are not [inaudible 00:16:58]

Miro: Joe Kent with the Institute of Hawaii; grassrootinstitute.org for more on that. 

Joe, what can be done in the meantime to make sure we have reliable power? That’s the big question, because you hear about the AI centers, they need mass [inaudible 00:17:14]. So, what can be done in the meantime to make sure we have reliable power?

Kent: Well, [unintelligible 00:17:19] regulations basically that are getting in the way. Ask the [inaudible 00:17:24] producers what are their biggest pain points. And the biggest pain points is each of these layers. And maybe look at the floodplain rules. You could look at reducing allowable interventions. 

Right now, if a community group wants to oppose a project, there’s almost an infinite amount of places that they can oppose it, even after the project is approved. 

But other states reduce these allowable interventions, and to try to, yes, provide an opportunity for public to input [inaudible 00:18:02] approach to energy. It’s much easier to build in those states. It only takes, you know, maybe a few years rather than, you know, six or seven years here. And the [inaudible 00:18:14] minimal. 

And in those states, it’s so easy [inaudible 00:18:20] that abundance of energy, such that they actually make money by exporting their energy [inaudible 00:18:26]. 

Now, look at California, though, that’s one of the slowest states. And Hawaii, you might take note about what not to do in its regulatory codes. It’s so difficult to build energy in California that they have to import power from the neighboring states.

Now, Hawaii can’t import. That’s our problem. And if you look at all the states across the nation that, you know, have huge barriers to power, they can all import. Hawaii can’t. So no one is coming to save us. We have to solve this problem by ourselves. And the way to do it is to get out of our own way and allow people to just build projects.

Miro: I think that was the case when Texas had the big freeze, which Texas has a lot of wind and solar. So when they utilize a lot of energy, they’ve got issues also. They’re not out of the woods just there because they’re more streamlined, but they borrowed energy from another state to get them powered back up after that big freeze. Was that three, four years ago or something? What about the [crosstalk] …

Kent: Yeah.

Miro: Yeah. Joe, what about the projects in the works right now? Are they likely to pan out, or are they worried that they’ll get canceled also?

Kent: Well, if you look at the projects that are on the docket right now, there’s around 25 to 30 projects, and 15 of them have been canceled. So that’s more than half of the projects have been canceled. 

And if we take that rate and project it forward, we can assume that some of the projects that are still on the chopping block will get chopped. 

You know, I’m hoping, though. that some of them can move forward. I mean, look at especially these biofuel plants that I mentioned. That is important because it is a source of firm power. Geothermal, same thing. Firm power.

And yes, it’s good to have all kinds of different power if somebody wants to build a solar plant or a wind turbine or something. But if you want to charge your phone at night, you need firm power. 

One thing that isn’t being proposed right now at all is liquid natural gas. And this is funny because the state in its plan to try to replace all petroleum, of which Hawaii uses around 67% for its energy makeup, they want to replace all of that with liquid natural gas.

Well, there is no liquid natural gas facilities right now for that being proposed or developed. And so, you know, things are going to have to change if they want to meet this goal.

Miro: Does the lawsuit that was put forward recently, you feel that will have any impact in people wanting to invest in projects here that might be leaning, you know, outside of the solar and wind energy? Do you think it’ll frighten people from trying to invest here along with everything else, the barriers?

Kent: Well, I think people already are frightened, you know, by the barriers, but certainly lawsuits don’t help. 

And, you know, right now, what they’re trying to — I think they did pass, actually. a liability cap at the Hawaii State Legislature that would limit Hawaiian Electric’s liability, which hopefully will foster more, you know, comfort and less risk for those who are trying to produce energy. 

But, you know, there’s always trade-offs. If there’s lower liability for energy, then that’s higher liability for the insurance companies. And so, you know, one way or another, someone always pays.

Miro: All right, Joe. Is there anything else that can be done to speed up the process? We’ve touched on a lot, you’ve touched on a lot. Anything else out there that can speed things up?

Kent: Well, like I said, building a power plant is just like building a house. There’s all kinds of layers of red tape, regulation, community opposition and sometimes even just pricing or geopolitical factors can get in the way. Interest rates can get in the way, and so on.

So the more that the community can support all kinds of projects, the more we keep an open mind about what’s possible and not limit ourselves to one type of energy or another, the more we look with an open mind at those states that are having success producing abundant energy and adopt their ideas here, then the more we could have an abundance of cheap and, you know, always-on energy.

Miro: All right. Any big takeaways, then, that the listeners should keep in mind?

Kent: Well, if you’d like to follow our work on this, you can follow us at grassrootsinstitute.org. And we’ll keep writing a little by little about energy. But the next time you see a power plant, consider saying yes, in my backyard, instead of always no. [laughs]

Miro: We need the energy. Yeah. So thanks so much, Joe, for joining us on this very, very important topic, which is going to be even more important as the years progress. All right.

Kent: Absolutely.

Miro: Yeah, no doubt about that. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday, and we’ll be talking soon. Thanks so much.

Kent: Thank you.