Akina extols dissent as necessary part of solving our problems

from Grassroot Institute

Grassroot Institute President Keli‘i Akina spoke briefly on Wednesday morning, Oct. 16, with radio host Michael W. Perry, whose “Perry & The Posse” show is the most listened-to morning radio program in Hawaii.

The pair talked about Hawaii’s “rubber stamp” Legislature; how Hawaii U.S. Sen. Brian Schatz has become a new strong voice for removing barriers to homebuilding; Grassroot’s Oct. 15 “Building common ground” housing event; the federal government shutdown; Hawaii’s dependence on federal subsidies; and how Grassroot founder Dick Rowland‘s slogan “The bigger government gets, the smaller you get” would make a good bumper sticker.

TRANSCRIPT

10-16-25 Keli‘i Akina with host Michael W. Perry on KSSK 92.3 FM 

Michael W. Perry: KSSK Radio. I’m Michael W. Perry.

Every now and then I get a chance to talk to one of the smartest guys I know, a good friend, Dr. Keli’i Akina. He runs Grassroot Institute, which is a think tank. 

Keli’i, that must be the only thinking going on sometimes in the entire state of Hawaii. I get that impression.

Keli’i Akina: Well, Mike, you’re too kind sometimes, but I think that we will do much better if we get together with each other, talk with each other and think together, because ideas matter, and a lot of times we’ve got some bad ideas out there, and I think that’s going on today.

Perry: Right. [chuckles] Well, one, here’s a bad idea: You wrote something recently —  grassrootinstitute.org, by the way; he is also [an elected trustee] on OHA [the state Office of Hawaiian Affairs] — and you wrote something about “rubber stamp” Legislature — you send out emails every now and then — we have a rubber-stamp legislature, and you even had the stats: Out of 94,000 votes cast during the 2025 session of the Legislature, 92,000 were “Yes.”

Akina: And, you know, we raise that as a flag of cooperation. We say things are going well, we’re getting along down at the Legislature — Democrats, Republicans, and so forth. But 98% of votes are cast in favor of bills, and that means we don’t have dissent. 

Now, what’s wrong with dissent? It’s something that shows people are not all thinking the same way. My concern about everybody voting the same way is that we’re thinking the same way. We’re coming up with no new solutions. We’re coming up with no ways of solving our problems.

Perry: Couldn’t agree more. And, by the way, you came up with a way to get Brian Schatz, our [U.S.] senator, over to Maui, except he couldn’t go to Maui. This was about housing on Maui. He’s dealing with the shutdown and all that stuff. But Sen. Schatz was on board with trying to solve some of the problems over there with the housing on Maui. Right?

Akina: Well, you know, we had a great event yesterday, co-sponsored with our friends at the [Hawai;i] Appleseed Center [for Law & Economic Justice]. You’ve heard of Grassroot Institute. Appleseed is another think tank in Hawaii. We don’t agree on everything, but it was great that we were able to find an area where we did agree, and that is that people need more housing here. 

And so we co-sponsored an event that Brian Schatz headlined, but unfortunately, due to the federal shutdown and his need to be available for a vote in D.C., he wasn’t able to attend in person, so he sent a video message. 

And here’s the remarkable thing, folks who are on both sides of the aisle are in agreement on the fact that we need more housing for Hawaii’s people. Imagine that.

Perry: Everybody agrees.

Akina: That’s right. But more remarkable, we’re able to agree on the problem — there’s not enough housing, particularly on Maui. And more than that, the biggest problem causing the lack of housing is government regulation. 

And so I want to give some kudos out to Sen. Schatz, with whom we don’t agree on everything, that he recognizes the problem of government regulation standing in the way of providing enough housing for people. And that’s the first step toward working together, towards solving the problem.

Perry: We’ve always known what the problem is. We actually know how to fix it. We just don’t do it. 

Speaking of the shutdown, are there any silver linings you can think of that would be coming out of the shutdown of the federal government? Most people are not affected — except for, of course, federal employees and air traffic controllers and that kind of thing. But is there a silver lining we can sort of say, you know this might be good?

Akina: Mike, I love your optimism, and I know you share with me also sympathy for anybody who is impacted by this, so I don’t want to … 

Perry: Yeah.

Akina: … sound glib. But there is a tough pill to swallow sort of here, and it could be good medicine. This federal shutdown may let us wake up and say it’s time to get less dependent on the federal government. 

Now, that would be in line with what the founders of our nation had in mind. They didn’t envision a huge federal government on which states were dependent. Right now, Hawaii’s state budget is dependent to the tune of almost 25% on the federal government.

Perry: Oh, geez.

Akina: And that doesn’t even count the military spending, which is at least another 10%.

Perry: Yeah.

Akina: Now, you take that away, we are left high and dry, and we’re starting to feel the potential effects of that. 

So maybe the silver lining here, the tough pill to swallow is, the less government we have, the bigger we can be. 

The founder of Grassroot Institute, my mentor Dick Rowland, used to say, “The bigger the government gets, the smaller you get.”

Perry: He’s exactly right. There’s the little bumper sticker, “The bigger the federal government gets, the smaller you get.” That is the truth. The smaller the states get.

Keli’i, it’s always remarkable to talk to you. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. And best of luck to you and the Grassroot Institute — grassrootinstitute.org, if you’re interested in anything that Keli’i’s been talking about here, there’s all kinds of good stuff.

Akina: Look us up on our website, grassrootinstitute.org. We’re also looking for people who’d like to work with us. We’ve got a lot of work to do to make Hawaii a better place where people can thrive. 

So, aloha to you, Mike, and to the posse.

Perry: Dr. Keli’i Akina….

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BACKGROUND: Do we really want a "rubber stamp" Legislature?